{"id":11032,"date":"2014-04-29T21:44:37","date_gmt":"2014-04-29T21:44:37","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/2014\/04\/29\/science-of-noise-linguisten\/"},"modified":"2015-02-20T11:15:34","modified_gmt":"2015-02-20T11:15:34","slug":"science-of-noise-linguisten","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/2014\/04\/29\/science-of-noise-linguisten\/","title":{"rendered":""},"content":{"rendered":"<div id='gallery-1' class='gallery galleryid-11032 gallery-columns-3 gallery-size-thumbnail'><figure class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<div class='gallery-icon landscape'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/2014\/04\/29\/science-of-noise-linguisten\/attachment\/11033\/'><img width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/files\/2014\/04\/tumblr_n4o9qfGF1r1qewacoo1_1280-150x150.jpg\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div><\/figure><figure class='gallery-item'>\n\t\t\t<div class='gallery-icon landscape'>\n\t\t\t\t<a href='http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/2014\/04\/29\/science-of-noise-linguisten\/attachment\/11034\/'><img width=\"150\" height=\"150\" src=\"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/files\/2014\/04\/tumblr_n4o9qfGF1r1qewacoo2_r1_500-150x150.gif\" class=\"attachment-thumbnail size-thumbnail\" alt=\"\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/div><\/figure>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/science-of-noise.tumblr.com\/post\/84255995430\/linguisten-tastefullyoffensive-whoa-x\" class=\"tumblr_blog\">science-of-noise<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p><a class=\"tumblr_blog\" href=\"http:\/\/blog.linguisten.de\/post\/84248727730\/tastefullyoffensive-whoa-x-dont-tell-them\">linguisten<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p><a class=\"tumblr_blog\" href=\"http:\/\/tumblr.tastefullyoffensive.com\/post\/83985747801\/whoa-x\">tastefullyoffensive<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p>Whoa. [<a href=\"http:\/\/www.livememe.com\/cz0myrl\">x<\/a>]<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Don\u2019t tell them that it\u2019s found all across indo-european \ud83d\ude09<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Ooh, I was trying to find this so I could tell y\u2019all all about it.<\/p>\n<p>It gets better, tho.<\/p>\n<p>In most Proto-Indo-European reconstructions, we have a four-way distinction between interrogative pronouns (\u201cwhat?\u201d, \u201cwhere?\u201d), relative pronouns (\u201cwhat\u201d in \u201cthat\u2019s what I\u2019m doing\u201d, \u201cwhere\u201d in \u201cthat\u2019s where I\u2019m going\u201d), proximal demonstratives (\u201cthis\u201d, \u201chere\u201d) and distal demonstratives (\u201cthat\u201d, \u201cthere\u201d). \u00a0In most cases, the difference between these was a single sound.<\/p>\n<p>Take a reconstructed root <em>*kwo<\/em> &#8211; meaning \u201cwhat?\u201d (interrogative). \u00a0In masculine nominative, this would have been\u00a0<em>*kwos<\/em>. \u00a0The relative form of this (\u201cwhat\u201d &#8211; not a question) would have been\u00a0<em>*<strong>y<\/strong>os<\/em>. \u00a0The proximal demonstrative pronoun (\u201cthis\u201d) is often reconstructed as\u00a0*<em><strong>s<\/strong>os<\/em>, and the distal form (\u201cthat\u201d) is usually thought to have been\u00a0*<em><strong>t<\/strong>os.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>You can see relics of this system in \u201cwhere\u201d and \u201cthere.\u201d \u00a0&lt;wh&gt; comes directly from Indo-European \/kw\/ and &lt;th&gt; (pronounced \/\u00f0\/ as in\u00a0<strong>th<\/strong>ere) comes from IE \/t\/. \u00a0In fact the words \u201cwhat\u201d and \u201cthat\u201d are direct reflexes of the neuter forms of the IE \u201cwhat\u201d words given above: <em>*<strong>kw<\/strong>od\u00a0<\/em>and\u00a0<em>*<strong>t<\/strong>od.<\/em> \u00a0Changing the sound at the beginning of the question word has been answering the question for about\u00a0<strong>5000<\/strong> years.<\/p>\n<p>But wait, there\u2019s more. \u00a0Most of this system has collapsed over the years in many IE languages, but in a few, nearly all of it is still around. \u00a0In Hindi and Urdu, this is the case (though the system gets messy for \u201cwho\u201d and \u201cwhat\u201d and a little bit for \u201chow\u201d), and there are probably others.<\/p>\n<p>\u0924\u0941\u092e <strong>\u0915<\/strong>\u0939\u093e\u0902 \u091c\u093e \u0930\u0939\u093e \u0939\u094b? (<em>Tum <strong>k<\/strong>ah\u0101\u0303 j\u0101 rah\u0101 ho?<\/em>) &#8211; Where are you going?<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u091c<\/strong>\u0939\u093e\u0902 \u091c\u0917\u0939 \u092e\u0948\u0902 \u091c\u093e \u0930\u0939\u093e \u0939\u0942\u0901 \u0935\u0939\u0940 \u0939\u0948\u0964 (<em><strong>J<\/strong>ah<\/em><em>\u0101\u0303 jagah ma\u0129\u00a0<\/em><em>j\u0101 rah\u0101 h\u016b\u0303 vah\u012b hai.<\/em>) &#8211; That is the place where I am going.<\/p>\n<p>\u0939\u0930 \u0926\u093f\u0928, \u092e\u0948\u0902 <strong>\u092f<\/strong>\u0939\u093e\u0902 \u0906\u0924\u093e \u0939\u0942\u0901\u0964 (<em>Har din, m<\/em><em>a\u0129 <strong>y<\/strong>ah<\/em><em>\u0101\u0303<\/em><em>\u00a0\u0101t\u0101\u00a0<\/em><em>h\u016b\u0303.<\/em>) &#8211; Every day, I come here.<\/p>\n<p>\u0939\u0930 \u0926\u093f\u0928, \u092e\u0948\u0902 <strong>\u0935<\/strong>\u0939\u093e\u0902 \u091c\u093e\u0924\u093e \u0939\u0942\u0901\u0964 (<em>Har din, m<\/em><em>a\u0129 <strong>v<\/strong>ah<\/em><em>\u0101\u0303<\/em><em>\u00a0j\u0101t\u0101\u00a0<\/em><em>h\u016b\u0303.<\/em>) &#8211; Every day, I go there.<\/p>\n<p>Interrogative = &lt;k&gt;, relative = &lt;j&gt;, proximal = &lt;y&gt;, distal = &lt;v&gt;. \u00a0The precise sound values have changed from the IE state, but the regularity is still there. \u00a0This is like, if in English we said:<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Where are you going?&#8221;<br \/>&#8220;I\u2019m going there.&#8221;<br \/>&#8220;Here?&#8221;<br \/>&#8220;No, there. \u00a0Over there is\u00a0<strong>yere<\/strong> I\u2019m going.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>or<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;What do you have in your hand?&#8221;<br \/>&#8220;Oh,\u00a0<strong>sat\u00a0<\/strong>thing? \u00a0Nothing.\u201d<br \/>&#8220;I want that.&#8221;<br \/>&#8220;Tough shit, you don\u2019t get to have\u00a0<strong>yat<\/strong> I have.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>science-of-noise: linguisten: tastefullyoffensive: Whoa. [x] Don\u2019t tell them that it\u2019s found all across indo-european \ud83d\ude09 Ooh, I was trying to find this so I could tell y\u2019all all about it. It gets better, tho. In most Proto-Indo-European reconstructions, we have a four-way distinction between interrogative pronouns (\u201cwhat?\u201d, \u201cwhere?\u201d), relative pronouns (\u201cwhat\u201d in \u201cthat\u2019s what I\u2019m &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/2014\/04\/29\/science-of-noise-linguisten\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading <span class=\"screen-reader-text\"><\/span> <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"gallery","meta":{"ngg_post_thumbnail":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[1033,1034],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11032"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=11032"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11032\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11035,"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11032\/revisions\/11035"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=11032"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=11032"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.firechildren.net\/lightfire\/iamthefirechild\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=11032"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}